The Traffic Pyramid Unlocking Podcast Growth and Business Success with Deirdre Tshien

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Business Chop, where challenges, success, rewards, and solutions to entrepreneurship collide. Let's chop it up. Hello, Chop Squad. It is great to be with you as always, and I'm excited today to introduce you to Deirdre Tshien. She is the co-founder and CEO of CapShow, the world's first AI-powered podcast copywriter.

[00:00:25] The CapShow is software that helps experts who podcast create their AI-generated episode title, the player description, show notes, social media captions, promo email, blog posts, LinkedIn article, and YouTube description. And under 10 minutes, I'd like to add. So if you're like me, you're a content creator, you've done all of those things all by yourself, and it does take a long time to get that all together.

[00:00:51] Yeah, you read it, you write it, you rewrite it. All of this to say that we can quickly amplify our message, grow our listeners, and build our movements. She is the creator also of Content Honey Traps, author of Honey Trap Marketing, and host of the Grow My Podcast show. We're going to learn and hear more from Deirdre on the other side of this message. Knock out your competition with Altogether Marketing.

[00:01:18] We elevate your brand, take a stance with your business name, logo, the tagline, your colors, even the fonts for your business. And then jab left with your website, jab right with core values. Back up with product experience and bring it on with you. Visit Altogether.biz and let us help you create a knockout brand. Welcome back.

[00:01:43] Deirdre is a serial entrepreneur, having founded and led seven businesses across five industries in only the last nine years, and has navigated the entire spectrum of experiences and emotions, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and hopefully the awesome Deirdre that comes with starting, running, closing, and exiting businesses. With her hands-on experience and successfully growing her businesses to six and seven figures,

[00:02:12] she now helps experts who podcast beat obscurity, amplify their message, and build their movements with invisibility with AI-powered content marketing assets. Deirdre, welcome to The Business Chop. Oh, thank you so much for having me here, Audrey. This is going to be such a fun chat. Yes, I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely.

[00:02:33] All right, so before we get into our hard questions here, please share a couple of fun facts about yourself. Oh, gosh. Some fun facts. Well, I am a big traveler, probably not so much these days, but definitely over the last, gosh, 15 years or so. And I've traveled to every continent except for Antarctica so far. Yeah, so that's a fun fact.

[00:03:04] I really like coriander. I don't know if I mentioned that, but that's, I don't know if that's a fun fact or not. But coriander is, it can be very polarizing, a polarizing flavor, but I'm on the pro side of that. Okay, well, that's cool. And leave it a little more personal. Who you and your husband were or are? Oh, yes. So we are high school sweethearts, actually.

[00:03:27] So we've been together for over 23 years now, which is crazy. Yeah. Okay, that's awesome. 23 years, that includes high school, right? Because I know you're just past teenagers here. All right, well, thanks for sharing all those personal tidbits with us. We always appreciate, you know, kind of breaking the ice and, you know, getting to know our guest here. So let's just, let's just dive right into this podcast thing.

[00:03:57] So what is your overall perspective on podcast growth? Oh, okay. My overall perspective on podcast growth is that it is not easy or simple, and there is no silver bullet. I think that's going to, you know, unfortunately, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is reality. And honestly, because I went through this myself, like growing a podcast is very much like, almost like you're marketing a whole nother business.

[00:04:25] And it's all the same marketing fundamentals apply. So every time I talk about how to grow a podcast, I always go back to, okay, well, what are the fundamentals of growing a business? These are the things that you need to have in place to really kind of have a consistent podcast growth as much as possible. So we talked about Capshow a little bit, you know, if you've been the CEO of that and the content, you know, Honey Traps. So tell us about Capshow and how did that come into being? Yeah.

[00:04:51] So Capshow is an AI powered platform. Basically, our users who are usually entrepreneurs, so coaches, consultants, service providers who create audio or video content. So they might be podcasting, they might have a YouTube channel, they might just do training courses. We actually even have a user and she just goes on a walk every day, records a two minute voice note on her phone, and that's what she uploads into Capshow. And basically, Capshow creates all of the content marketing assets.

[00:05:20] So text-based like social media posts, LinkedIn newsletters, blog posts, but also it does image generation now. So you can create your YouTube thumbnails and social media posts through Capshow. And it also does short form video clipping. So if you do upload a video, then it will actually, you can ask it to find the funniest moments or find the most inspiring moments or the moments that talked about this particular topic. And it'll go ahead and find that clip and clip it for you. So that's kind of what Capshow does.

[00:05:50] It's kind of an all-in-one content marketing platform. And how that really came about for us was because we literally went through that struggle. You know, I had a coaching business. I had, that was when I had my first podcast. And honestly, at the time I was very much following the Gary V advice of like, be everywhere, like be on all the platforms, content domination. And I was like, okay, well, that must be what success looks like and how you get success.

[00:06:17] And so I was on literally every platform. I had, it was myself, my co-founder, and we had three VAs who were supporting us, all of us working on content creation. It was crazy to the point where it, I, like the whole team burnt out. It was insane. And I just knew that there had to be a better way of doing this. Back like, gosh, we're talking 10 years or so in my corporate career, I was in banking.

[00:06:42] I actually was in the innovation team and my whole rebate was actually to look at emerging technologies like AI, like blockchain, things like that. And so I already knew that there was, that AI was a thing. This was before ChatGPT. This was before, you know, really AI took off in mass market. And so because I was like, I was looking at this problem, I was like, this is actually a really good use case for AI. And so we started working on Capture end of 2021.

[00:07:09] We launched our beta in mid-2022. And then ChatGPT came onto the scene, really blew up sort of early, like late 2022, early 2023. And then, you know, AI just really took off. So that's why we say we were the first because we genuinely were in this podcasting space.

[00:07:31] When I remember being at PodFest and we'd show people like what, and they were like, at the time, it just, it was so much fun to see just how, like how much minds were blown because no one really knew about AI back then, you know. And it was able to do all these really cool things. So, yeah, that's kind of how we went about starting Capture. Get your brim on. Since 1972, American Hat Makers has been dedicated to the art of fine hat making.

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[00:08:26] Elevating the you and entrepreneurs coming April 24th through the 26th. Learn from sessions on business technology, artificial intelligence, emotional intelligence, digital marketing, monetizing your knowledge, podcasting, leadership, and more. For pre-early bird registration, visit bit.ly slash spring into action 2025. Now you have the other project, Content Honey. So what's, you know, what is that about? And you have, the question is, you know, phrased as, you know, what are the content honey traps?

[00:08:56] Yeah. Yeah. So when I've been, you know, going through my, my whole, you know, entrepreneurship marketing, because entrepreneurship, let's be honest, is really marketing at the end of the day. Like we need to be able to market ourselves and our products and our services. I call it the traffic pyramid, but there are kind of four tiers to, to the traffic pyramid. And I always, I spent quite a lot of time on the first tier. And I think a lot of people do, because this is probably the one that we kind of hear about the most.

[00:09:26] We, we see the most sort of training and education, probably the lowest barrier to entry. And so I'll just quickly go through the four, you know, tiers. And I'm happy to go into detail if that. Yeah. Okay, cool. So the, the bottom tier, which is the foundational tier of the traffic pyramid is what I call passive organic marketing. Um, so it's organic, i.e. it's free, which is great. Uh, and that's why it's like the lowest barrier to entry. It can be time consuming because this is really just about creating content, right?

[00:09:55] So if you're podcast, if you're creating podcast episodes, that's you creating content. If you're creating blog posts, that's creating content. If you, um, are posting on social media, that's creating content, right? So any of that, like it's a big tier because this is where a lot of us spend a lot of our time, um, you know, trying to, I guess, just document our expertise and our experience and our stories so that we can actually get our message out there. This is kind of, you know, going back to the question about content honey traps, just like everyone else.

[00:10:24] I spent a lot of time in this tier trying to figure out like what actually worked. And content honey traps is really kind of the framework that I used and I developed to, um, get people to pay attention and compel people to take action as much as possible. So, um, you know, in the framework, there are different, but like different types, I guess, of content honey traps that, you know, you can go down. So I'll give you an example.

[00:10:52] One is called the paradox and the paradox is where you're, you're putting together two almost like unbelievable facts. Like that is a juxtaposition, right? So an example of that, um, cause I remember I went to an event and it was one of those events where there were like a ton of things on the agenda and you had to choose, right? It was like a pick and choose, go, go to which stage was appropriate for you. And there was one that topic that stood out cause because of, because of the title, right?

[00:11:19] Because it was, it was a content honey trap and it was like how I built a million dollar business with a $19 product and a toilet seat. And when you look at that, you kind of go like million dollar business, which is like this big, you know, result. And then $19 product and toilet seat, which is like this juxtaposition of like how in the world did this person do that? And the reason why the paradox, um, as one of the frameworks is so compelling is because when our brains see this big gap,

[00:11:47] you know, $19 product, toilet seat, $1 million, it needs to close it. It needs to close that gap, right? Yeah. And so that's, that's an example of a content honey trap. Um, and so really in, in short content honey traps are just, it's like a framework that you can use to create hooks title, whether that's titles, whether that's like the first line of a post or a blog post or a newsletter, um, so that you can get, so that people pay attention and are like, Oh, I want to know more about what it is that you have to say about this.

[00:12:16] Um, and so the content honey trap framework is built into that bottom tier of the traffic pyramid of creating content, passive organic marketing. Now, if I keep going, any questions about that, I can keep going with the traffic pyramid. Sure. Um, please, um, take a little bit more time on that. Yeah. The thing that I found, uh, even when I was going through this process of like creating content was, and you know, even as you're asking Audrey before, like is like podcast growth, right? Like how do we grow a podcast? Because just having a podcast is awesome, right?

[00:12:45] We're getting our voice, we're getting used to articulating our message and getting our voices out there, but it's, it's in a passive way. Like you're hitting publish, but then that's kind of it. Like that's what I was doing. You know, when I had my podcast, I was like, okay, publish. And it's like, okay, let me just turn my thumbs and wait for people to come find it. Right. It's, it's us being very passive about it. Um, and that's why the second tier is actually really important because this is really all the, um,

[00:13:12] the strategies and the tactics to now activate all of the pieces of content that we're putting out there. And, you know, going back to the whole Gary V like be on every platform and stuff. I was like, I disagree with that very strongly now because of the second tier, because of the fact that unless you have, unless like him, you have a big team and a ton of money to spend on it. Like a lot of us don't have that. And so we have to be really, really, um, disciplined about where it is that we spend our time and our resources.

[00:13:41] And the reason why is because we do need to know those particular platforms that we've chosen. How do they need to be activated? For example, even if you just look at podcasting and itself, like, yes, activation can look like, you know, how do we play around without the keyword search? Because, you know, a lot of it, it's not as keyword heavy as like a Google, like, you know, creating a blog post, but it is still driven a lot by keywords. So how do we lean into that?

[00:14:09] How do we lean into, you know, making sure that our artwork is actually eye-catching? How do we, you know, there's, there's, there's, there are things that that platform itself does algorithmically or otherwise that will actually give you a bigger chance of getting visible. And it's the same thing on social media. Like a lot, a lot of what gets missed is that you actually have to in activating a platform that you're on, whether that's Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram or Excel or whatever,

[00:14:35] you actually have to put in work to ensure that you have the right audience following you, i.e. how do you actually, if it's online, how do you actually, you know, follow them and, and, and, and, and start conversations get, you know, and then recipient, and then they'll follow you back or how, right. And it's, and it's all, and, and how do you actually know what type of content they are, they want to push out at a time? Because what LinkedIn, the type of content LinkedIn pushes out is different to Facebook, which is different to Instagram.

[00:15:03] So you actually have to kind of know, you have to spend time. And that's why I always say my heavy recommendation is just focus on two platforms like that, you know, that's enough anyway. So that's like activating it really. Right. And, and, and having an actual, having, actually having conversations on those platforms, like actually go in the DMS because that is, that's where you start to uncover. I know a ton of people who have gotten lead sales through DMS. But a lot of us don't do that because we find it icky.

[00:15:33] And it is, if you don't do it the right way, if you don't have like a trigger or permission to reach out to someone, then it'll be icky for sure. But there's a whole strategy on how to do that. Anyway, going on. So that's like the second tier. The third tier then is what I call leveraging other people's audiences. And this is kind of like bread and butter for a lot of us, especially podcasters. Like how do you get on other people's podcasts? How do you find partnerships, you know, with people with the same audience as yours so that

[00:16:00] you can collaborate, you can share content, you can do some cool, I don't know, whether it's giveaways or summits or, you know, just really. And I actually really love playing in this space because you can get really creative about what it is that you can do with other people and entice their audience to come and follow you or to buy something from you. But then the last tier, the fourth tier is paid ads then. So once you have your organic machine kind of running and you know what messages are landing

[00:16:29] and you know what problems specifically you solve for people and what solutions they're looking for, then it makes so much sense to just put money behind that because then you're just multiplying the success that you're already getting organically. So yeah, that's kind of the traffic pyramid in short. I know I ran through that. I explained a little bit of content hunting traps. Hopefully that was as clear as I could make it. Right, right. Enough to pique our interest so we can, you know, connect with you further, which, you

[00:16:55] know, would be my next question is on how can we get it, connect with you and find your podcast so we can, you know, learn a little bit more, like you said, and go a little deeper. Yeah, for sure. First and foremost, I would love if you are an entrepreneur, so you're a coach, consultant, service provider who creates content, whether that's a podcast, whether that's YouTube, so audio or video content. I would love for you to try CAPSHO out. We have a seven-day free trial. You can just go to CAPSHO, C-A-P-S-H-O dot com.

[00:17:23] And if you do, please put in the code FOREVER50 and you will get 50% off our plan for as long as you're a CAPSHO being. So that's 50% off. So if you love it, you actually get to pay half the price of what it is CAPSHO usually is forever if you stay with us forever, hopefully. So I would love you to check out CAPSHO. But otherwise, if you just want to connect on social media, LinkedIn and Facebook are

[00:17:51] probably my two, the two platforms that I tend to focus on. And it's just my full name, Deidre Shen, on those platforms. That is awesome. Thank you, Deidre, for that offer and also for your advice today. So what nugget of advice, we'll go a little more deeper, would you want to leave with us today? Yeah, the one thing I think that I had to learn, and I'm sure that some of you might be feeling this too, is that all strategies work, right?

[00:18:18] I think that when they don't work is because we don't actually stick with them for long enough. So what I would encourage people to do is try to put the blinkers on. Every time you commit to, yeah, this is kind of the, and I'm talking about generally marketing, but this could be anything across the board. When you commit to doing something, I would love for you to commit to it for at least six months, which just sounds like a long time. And it's really, really hard to do because I am classic for like, if it's not showing results in two days, I'm out.

[00:18:47] But I have learned that those who stick with it and who stay consistent, those are the ones that will actually yield the results. So that's what I'd leave you with is that everything does take time and it's worth it. It's worth it to put the time in. Yeah, absolutely. And before we close out, I was remiss and did not acknowledge your show, your interview partner with you today. Why don't you do share your interview partner there? Oh, yes. Yes. My trusty mascot who sits here next to me.

[00:19:16] This is Monty, our sloth. Monty. He is a reminder because everything that we do, and especially even in building capture and stuff, our whole ethos is how do we help people as entrepreneurs be intelligently lazy. And so he's a reminder to be intelligently lazy. That's fantastic. Well, Deidre, thank you so much again for joining the show today.

[00:19:42] And Chop Squad, I'm excited and I hope that you will definitely reach out and try the product. I'm going to try it. Cap Show, content creator, need to get out of doing things and really leverage technology. We have got to do that. And we're going to move forward with any type of speed and accuracy, efficiency. I like to use that word. Yeah. You know, we have to try different technologies. So thank you. Thank Deidre again. Thank you. Thank you for listening to The Business Stop.

[00:20:11] We hope that you were able to glean valuable information from our guests and that you will download and share this podcast. Your rating and review is much appreciated. To go deeper with our guests, please visit their website and social channels. To learn more about us, please visit businessshop.info or altogether.biz, where we will help you expand your brand.